Great Sword Balance


#1

I was play today I went to go look at swords I saw a pretty cool looking one and looked at its stats and…
It was very sucky compared to the great sword so maybe weaken the greatsword and make some higher end sword that has better damage and has cleave


#2

Just looking at the DpS (Damage per Second), the Claymore is just as good as the Great Sword. The Great-Swords PowerUp is usually better in close combat, because you can out a huge damagespike against priority (that is strong) targets. Don’t waste it by using it as soon as it’s ready. The claymore has basically a short-ranged attack, enabling you to attack enemies before they can hit you. Useful against throwers and shamans.

You’re right that there are situations were both abilities are not particulary useful. If you are swarmed by weak enemies, a cleave-attack would be much better… or would it? Cleave as gainend by the Long Sword does 15 damage to each enemy it hits. And need 1 second to do so. This means the total damage output scales with the amount of enemies hit. If you hit 3 enemies with cleave, your total damage done is 45 (3 * 15). If all your enemies had less than 15 HP each, you just scored a multikill. If you’re enemies had more than 15 HP each (like everything above munchkins, maybe throwers), but less than ~30 HP (The damage of your Long Sword), you would drive better by simply attacking them one by one. This is true until you’re sourrunded by 11 (!) or more enemies with less than 30 HP. By the time you stabbed ten of them to death, cleave is up a second time.


That is nice and good, we took a close look at the long sword, found some numbers and stuff. So why buy for example the great sword?

From the numbers given in the shop, we can calculate that the great sword can attack about 4 (65.5 / 16.37) times per second. This means very time the Long Sword killed one enemy, the Great Sword kills two. Also every 12 seconds the Great Sword has a guaranteed Damage Output of 196.44 Damage. That is enough to kill a male Ogre (which have 120 HP) and it will definitly hurt a female Ogre (250 HP). So in an ideal setup, you would need 1 Powerup or 2 seconds to kill a normal ogre with a Great Sword and roughly 5 seconds (120 / 27.62 rounded to the next integer) seconds to kill them with a Long Sword (cleave is not effective against single targets).

Why don’t I look at the multi-munchkin-scenario with the Great Sword? Because by the time you get yourself a Great Sword, you should have at least some HP-Items. Those munchkins deal little to no damage once you stocked some HP, so we can ignore their numbers. Only if you are swarmed by like 20 at the same time this would matter, but normally you know that beforehand and simply switch to the right sword for that task.


Summary:

In general I’d prefer the Great Sword over the Long Sword simply because it can kill stronger enemies faster. If I know that 20 weak enemies will swarm me however, I of course use the most effective tool against them, which happens to be the Long Sword.
In most cases it is the question what you want to achieve, and later levels usually have few strong enemies.


#3

Aye. but there should be a higher lvl sword with a higher level cleave variation on it.


#4

While I generaly agree to “bigger explosions are better”, I think that this would actually be hard to balance. On the other hand I saw some experiments with the wizard and shockwaves, and apparently this combination has the potential to freeze the game because so much awesomeness happens.
So much to bigger is better…

We will all look on the next Chief Artisan, as this falls into his job description.
But thanks for the input.


#5

Considering that the game is ongoing and you gain more and more levels. It would be ridiculous to introduce an AOE attack to warriors in the early game only to never see it again or upgraded as the levels progress to fall in line with how powerful the single target attacks / weapon damage is at that level.

That’s like saying. here at lvl 5 you get a heal. But you’ll never get another one again. Just silly. it should be a staple of that particular “class” and continue to improve.

BTW. we’re not talking about higher range (no bigger effect or explosion) just increased dps for higher lvl encounters.


#6

I didn’t look at it from this point of view.

Do you agree that cleave should always be weaker than a normal attack? I actually like the combination of the long-sword: slow, powerful attack and a slow “low-damage” AoE. I wonder how good that scales.

@ the silent edit you pushed behind:
I think the range is already good. More than three times default Attack-range seems fair enough. I wondered anyway how the hero does this. Telescopic sword?


#7

single attack skills should always do more damage.

there should be upgrades to powerups that are single target as well on higher lvl swords. everything should scale upward evenly but an increase is needed. It’s useless to use a cleave sword when you get so much better dps from a higher lvl one. So it’s basically taking away the skill as they level. :slight_smile:


#8

Maybe a higher end sword with cleave that does more damage, so pretty much a better long sword and I ment long sword when I said great sword


#9

There are much more powerful weapons coming along. Armor is pretty much already there, but hero DPS and awesome attack abilities will need to scale up to deal with some of the more powerful monsters you’ll be seeing in mountain and later worlds.