Arryn's damage too low?

The new warrior hero seems a bit underpowered to me when compared to the Samurai.

The scaling damage factor for Arryn is 0.63 where Hattori is 1.8. It means the samurai deals 3 times more damage. Of course this is to the benefit of more health and more speed, but the health comparison is 0.71 to 1.00 and the speed (supposing Ring of Speed +5 and Boots +2) is 15 to 23.

If we modelize a rough “fighting potential” to the multiplicative scaling factors (somewhat accurate for warrior who can only walk and hit), we have

fightingPotential = Speed * DamageFactor * HealthFactor

Arryn potential = 23 * 0.63 * 1.00 = 14.5
Hattori potential = 15 * 1.8 * 0.71 = 19.2

And it’s even more visible against Witches because of their healing ability. Hattori’s dps is above the threshold and can solo-kill witches whereas Arryn can’t (with best single target weapon)

I think, for the price and the late game warrior that Arryn is, he is somewhat underpowered. Or Hattori is too powerful.

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I thought Arryn could throw discs…

Indeed she does.

Arryn Blade dps with a Sword of the Temple Guard :

Melee dps = 206 * 0.63 = 130 dps (almost 4 hits per second, 33.5 dmg per hit)

Throw specs :
114 damage
3.5 sec CD
0.25 sec animation

During the 0.25 she takes to throw a disk, she would have inflicted 0.25sec * 130 dps = 32.5 dmg. So a disk adds a (114 dmg - 32.5 dmg) = 81.5 damage to her regular auto attacks every 3.5sec.

So you’re right, disks improve her kit, but it still doesn’t feel good enough to me when fighting witches (can’t OS a witch from a distance with a disk + slow + lifesteal + 40m range). Also the disk can be intercepted by another enemy. Not complaining. Just trying to provide constructive feedback about why I prefer (paradoxically) fighting with the Samurai.

“OS”?? One Shot? This isn’t the only/best balance consideration…

Balance is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) part of designing any game.

Nope, no accusation of complaining here. :smile: Just making sure that all things are being considered.

So, as currently working “Hattori with massive sword” is better at witch slaying than Arryn, that is only one mob in one situation. . . are there any mobs/situations that Arryn would be better?

[edit] Oh, I almost forgot, different heroes for different fighting styles is actually a good thing… (otherwise everyone will just use the same one and what was the point of wasting (your/CoCo’s) money&time on the others.)

I don’t disagree that later/more expensive heros shouldn’t be better than earlier/cheaper ones, just, what does “better” mean?

Yea, yea, it wasn’t smart to mention a OS. All I’m saying is you have to walk all the way towards a witch in order to kill it, which is 40m away, and steals your life and slows you down. Also, you don’t have the dps to out dps its lifesteal.

So yea, when fighting a witch (an enemy introduced a tiny bit earlier than unlocking Arryn) : Arryn is screwed.
You could try to kite and throw two consecutive (3.5sec) throws to kill it. But I don’t see this working because of the high probability of interception of the disk. Also, during the 3.5sec you’ll get swarmed.

There are many situation where Arryn is good, and that’s when utilising her strengths : Speed and HP.

All I’m saying is she’s only 30% better at those when compared to Hattori. But in actual “let’s get rid of the bunch of enemies over there”, Hattori is 300% faster. And don’t tell me that’s not a big part of the game.

Also, I’m not saying Arryn should be a godmode, all I’m saying is : I don’t feel her kit provides her enough power to perform well in the world she was summoned in (Mountains, with swarms of enemies and powerful ranged mages)

Cool, now we know what “better” means :wink: and it sounds to me like you probably have a good point…
Now we wait for “the powers that be” to decide to tweak her or not. :smiley:

After trying her out longer and utilizing her kit more extensively, she is more viable that I originally thought.

The possibility to constantly throw disk every 3.5 sec brings a nice random damage to a swarm of enemies. Again, the dps of this ability isn’t that high, but I understand the cooldown can’t be decreased in order for Arryn to remain a warrior, not a ranger.

Also, the use of the shield is more relevant for Arryn than it is for Hattori. Indeed, Hattori deals such an enormous amount of damage, using his shield actually isn’t beneficial to him. So, my bad, witches can be dealt with thanks to a nice shield bash from Arryn.

However, I still think she’s a bit underpowered. Not a lot, but just enough to give her a “meh” feeling. Buffing her disk damage from 114 to 120 could be enough, as if you’re lucky enough to hit a Headhunter or a Witch (120hp each) with a disk, the probability to hit them twice in a row drops considerably. There is no point in hitting them only once as their power isn’t decreased at all.

[edit] Last minute edit : Utilizing her strength : speed and health, I manage to beat Sarven Treasure 5 with a very basic algorithm. Simply running to the nearest coin that isn’t closer to an enemy than to me. Best Chest armor, best Shield and Viking helmet. When executed I have beaten lvl 6 but when sent not. I’ll add a simple dodging function and try my luck in the next few days.

Arryn should be the natural choice when you want the fastest warrior. Hattori should be better when you want decent speed but great damage. Arryn should also have great knock back for her nearby troops when war cry is active, if you ever want a strategy relating to that.